Arizona Republicans explain why they’re considering voting Democratic this year

Arizona’s 11 electoral college votes could be vital for both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump’s path to victory. President Biden won Arizona by just over 10,000 votes in 2020. White House Correspondent Laura Barrón-López traveled to the Phoenix suburb of Tempe to sit down with four lifelong Republicans to get their take on the presidential race, how they view Trump and the future of their party.
Geoff Bennett:
Arizona’s 11 Electoral College votes could be key to winning the presidential race next month.
Our White House correspondent, Laura Barron-Lopez, recently spent some time there.
So, Laura, as you well know, President Biden won Arizona by just over 10,000 votes back in 2020. How’s it looking now?
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Geoff, this year polls show that Trump has a slight edge over Harris in the state. So we traveled to Tempe, Arizona, just outside of Phoenix, to sit down with four lifelong Republicans to get their take on the presidential race, how they view Trump and the future of their party.
How many of you have voted for Donald Trump? How many of you voted for Donald Trump twice? And how many of you plan on supporting Donald Trump this November? None of you. How would you describe the Republican Party that you initially became a part of in one word?
Kevin Wenker, Arizona Voter:
Integrity.
Dan Barker, Arizona Voter:
Freedom.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls, Arizona Voter:
Opportunity.
Joel John, Arizona Voter:
Free enterprise.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
And how would you describe the Republican Party now?
Kevin Wenker:
Cowardly.
Dan Barker:
Lost.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
Fearmonger.
Joel John:
Lawless.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Seventy-three-year-old Kevin winker is a retired pastor who voted for Donald Trump in 2016.
Kevin Wenker:
For me, character is a major issue, and because decisions in the presidency especially are made by the character of the president making them. Donald Trump does not know how to tell the truth. He deliberately lies and then he lies about his lies.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Dan Barker, 71, is a former judge and member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He’s never voted for Trump.
Dan Barker:
In 2016, during that campaign, he mocked a disabled person. And for me as a Christian, a person of faith, for somebody that actively mocks another person for a disability, that’s just completely contrary to what I believe.
The biggest deal is the rule of law and spreading the big lie, saying that our elections are rigged. I think that goes to the core of our democracy. If people lose faith in that, that’s going to dramatically impact our democracy.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Fifty-three-year-old Amanda Stewart Sprowls a mother of three who voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020.
Amanda, you voted for Trump twice, but you’re not going to this year.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
I look at his economic policy and he’s basically talking about a huge national sales tax without any kind of approval from Congress, and, basically, at his whim, and he’s looking at anywhere from 20 percent up to 60 percent of tariffs.
It’s not even like he’s talking like a Republican. He’s talking command-and-control economy at this point. He’s not even giving us a choice.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
And Joel John, 45, voted for Trump in 2020, but feels he’s no longer able to support the former president.
Joel John:
I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate ever. And then January 6 happened, and I was just livid.
No matter all the arguments, pro arguments for Donald Trump, January 6 tips the scales every single time for me, that we just cannot have a sitting president of the United States incite a violent attack on the Capitol like that because he’s upset that he lost the election.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
All four of these lifelong Republicans voted for Nikki Haley for president in the Arizona Republican primary. They’re the kind of Republicans Harris hopes will cross party lines, in some cases for the very first time.
Can you raise your hand for me if you’re going to vote for Vice President Harris in November?
Amanda, you didn’t raise your hand.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
I know that Trump isn’t my choice, and I am still watching and waiting and very hopeful as Vice President Harris keeps moving to the center. And I could see myself voting for her. I definitely do, but I’m still going to remain uncommitted at this point.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
For the other three, the decision ultimately comes down to character and protecting the Constitution.
Joel John:
I think, by and large, Kamala Harris is a decent person. We may disagree on some policy positions. I think she’s going to protect the rule of law, follow our constitutional process. If she loses the election, she’s not going to claim it was rigged.
Republicans, we have always said we support the police, back the blue. And 140 police officers injured that day. And I’m just baffled that suddenly the police were the bad guy, and the January 6 prisoners are the good guys and should be pardoned.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
That means reconciling their personal faith with some of Harris’ positions, like on abortion.
Kevin Wenker:
I, as a pastor, have to remember that our country is a democracy. We are not a theocracy. And my personal religious beliefs cannot be put on somebody else, even though I may consider what they’re doing wrong.
It has to be, again, by rule of law. And for Roe v. Wade was the law, and now to come along and say that the government has the right to tell you or you as a woman what you can do with your body, I have a problem with that.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
But, for Amanda, abortion is one of the issues where she aligns with Harris most.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
One of the important parts of Roe was that it made it safe. It made it something that we could regulate as a medical procedure. We don’t want to see women in tragic situations where they’re still carrying a baby that’s no longer even viable and being forced to carry that baby until natural labor occurs, because women have died that way. Women used to die that way.
Donald Trump, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: And we will close the border. We will stop the invasion.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Trump’s anti-immigrant message and recent lies that legal Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, were eating cats and dogs has only made these Republicans question their party more.
Kevin Wenker:
What really troubles me about that is, J.D. Vance came out and said, yes, it was a false story, but we have the right to make up false stories to try and get our point across.
Do we want an administration that is based on that type of non-integrity? You tell a lie often enough and it’s not that people believe the lie, but they don’t care about the truth anymore.
Dan Barker:
Hey, I will be the first to say, do I think the border’s been handled that great the last three years? No. Well, but there was a bipartisan bill, a bipartisan bill that would have made a huge difference.
Harris would enforce the law. We would get a law and we wouldn’t have a president that would try and divide U.S. based upon where we came from.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Amanda, earlier, you said that you aren’t decided yet on Harris. What more do you need to hear from her to get you there?
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
I would like to hear more from her speaking about tax policy, and I’d like to hear more of how she’s actually willing to compromise with Congress to get these policies past that we desperately need, whether it’s on immigration, whether it’s on tax policy, whether it’s cutting spending, whether it’s giving more power and energy to the Ukrainians, so that they can rally into Russia.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
What is the deciding factor for you this November?
Kevin Wenker:
I want to be able to trust what I hear from the person who’s going to be president. I don’t want to hear lies. I don’t want to hear exaggerations. I don’t want to hear made-up stories.
Dan Barker:
Willingness to uphold the rule of law and not to be untruthful about the facts that govern and control our democracy.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
I would like to see a leader who is able to compromise, who can work within divided government, and actually lead by example and compromise, like we all have to on a daily basis.
Joel John:
Probably the rule of law, like Dan said, someone who’s going to follow our constitutional process, someone who’s going to honor that. If Republicans win in 2024, but not in 2028, will Vance certify the election? Will he count the votes for the Democratic candidate that won or will he not?
Laura Barron-Lopez:
Amanda hopes there’s a world where she can soon call the GOP home again.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
I think we need to be grownups as Republicans and start looking a little bit long term and more strategically. If Trump can’t deliver us what we want on tax policy, but Harris can, potentially with a Republican Senate, that’s what we need to be voting for this time, so that we can take the presidency back in ’28.
Laura Barron-Lopez:
For Joel, Dan and Kevin, a return appears more elusive, signaling a potential realignment of the country’s political parties for years to come.
How would you describe what it feels like to be a lifelong Republican who can no longer vote for the Republican presidential candidate?
Joel?
Joel John:
Unusual.
Amanda Stewart Sprowls:
Pretty disgusted.
Dan Barker:
Brave.
Kevin Wenker:
Disappointed.